Is the Earth approximately 6000 years old? (as opposed to 4.5 billion)

The bottom line question here, the one topic which everyone here seems to be trying to answer in their mind is "Does God Exist"? How old the earth is, that is just frosting on the cake. It boils down to pure existence at all. Is the universe infinite? No. Even Steven Hawking has acknowledge that for all you scientist flag waivers out there. Since it was created, it had to have a creator and since our universe is made up of time, space, and matter, the creator has to be timeless, space less, and immaterial. Pretty simple. I would hope any intelligent human being as all scientist flag waivers say they are would agree something can't come into existence out of nothing. If you think that, well, then you must be those folks who feel that out of thin air (even our air which, oh by the way, is not nothing) a tree can just show up. Really????

God is timeless, space less and immaterial and has the power to do ANYTHING. How old is the earth? I don't know, we will never know. We are human. We can't comprehend the power of God or his ways. The reason we argue about is there a God or not is because those who do not believe in a God seem to feel this way because they don't want there to be a God to ultimately judge over them. They want to live their own lives. You know what. God is all loving. Love must be of our own free will. You can't force love. A man can't force a woman to love him no matter how hard he might love her and want her in his live. But if he truly did love her he would give her up to her own free will and let her choose not to love him. God is the same way. He won't force you to be with him because he loves you to much for that. In closing, determining the age of the earth it seems will provide proof of a God or not. If it is 4.5 billions of years old then all the evolutionist will come out of their shell and say I told you so. If it is only 6000 years old, then all of the Creationist will sit back and say I told you so. Regardless, a creator had to create or the very thing we are discussing here wouldn't even exist. That creator is what we believers call the almighty God.

Evolution is fact, 100% undeniable fact. You simply cannot argue with that. It happens all around us all the time, it is happening to us all the time. You simply cannot deny it.

Anything living has to adapt to survive. Here's an example... if you don't believe in evolution, then we would all be born as blank templates with zero knowledge or skills. We wouldn't know how to move, we wouldn't have emotions. Were you taught the skills you possess? Were you taught how to cry? Were you taught how to open your eyes for the first time? NO! YOUR WERE NOT. Do we all look the same? NO! Take a look at your facial features for example, then take a look at your family tree. You will find that your looks, your skills, both your physical and mental attributes are things passed to you by your parents, given to them by their parents, given by their parents.... and so on and so on.

This is evolution people!! How hard it it to understand. It's undeniable fact. It's unbelievable how people are so ignorant.

Given relativity of time and space, both can be correct. One is in our time frame of reference, one is in the of reference of any being traveling near or beyond the speed of light. We have barely scratched the surface of how the universe works. What is gravity? How does the fabric of space bend and can we fold or distort space time. Space is not an empty stage but full of both light and dark matter. Humans have trouble comprehending space time, we have to stretch our thinking to understand the other dimensions. Wouldn't an advanced being, God, know this? Know this about us?. If you were trying to teach a child about these concepts, how would you do it? How would you explain the vastness and complexities of the universe to a little boy or girl? Why do you believe these ideas are diametrically opposed when they both may be completely correct.

The time it takes light travel is equally an issue from a long ages perspective. The Cosmic Background Radiation is a consistent temperature across the entire universe. To achieve that, light must have travelled all the way from one end of the universe to the other. To get around this, some scientists now believe in "inflation theory", where everything was close enough to allow the temperature of the background radiation to equalise, then inflation, everything expanded out at a speed greater than the speed of light. Then somehow stopped.

Interesting thing is, that solves the star light issue, and is actual described in the bible. God stretched out the heavens. So in a similar vein, everything created, stars close by, then God stretched out the heavens creating the vast universe we see to His glory. Unlike inflation theory we also have the mechanism that caused the fast stretching out and how it stopped in place.

Now that theory can't be proven either. But it is no good flagging an issue with the distance of stars, when that problem is there for evolutionists as well. Getting around that is a theory on both sides. But the truth is, when you view ALL the evidence critically, the earth being 6000(ish) years old presents fewer issues and has simpler explanations than trying to get billions of years in the mix.

Everyone is so indoctrinated with the idea of millions of years, they don't tend to look past it. Yet if you have an open mind and truly look at the evidence, it is there for all to see.

I believe both are wrong. Perhaps the creation took 6000 years but that's not the literal age of our world. According to the King James Bible, referencing Genesis, it took a total of six days. According to translated Egyptian templates one day to the Lord is a thousand years to man. Consider the birth of a child. It takes 9 months for a fetus to form in the womb but that doesn't mean all of us human beings are only 9 months old (unless your an idiot) until we die. However, this is according to man's time. We have created the 24hr block and accumulated that into intelligent estimated time frames for all living things. According to the Egyptian templates and religious deity God's time and man's time are separate. It wasn't until latest technology that we have made any scientific attempt to determine the age of our world. I think this world is a lot more ancient then we can possibly think and I think human's grasp of time is very psychologically constrained. We don't have any concept of eternity; thus, as humans we have a time limit for everything according to our way of living. However, I don't think that is wrong. I think the fact we have used our resources to maximize our concept of time and create technologies to further our discoveries is AMAZING and without it wouldn't even be having this discussion.

Here's a thought I don't see anywhere...how about if, since God created Adam and Eve, plants and animals to be adults, couldn't he also have created the stars to be billions of light years away? The universe to be as big and as old as it is? God can create whatever He want's, He created time itself, didn't He? So who are we to place limits on Him?

Why, people? Why does it matter how old the earth is? We can never know for sure, because there is evidence for both sides, so why do we keep calling each other ignorant and stupid over something that doesn't even affect our lives today? Would it really change your life if the earth was older or younger?

If you really want to know for sure, go to the Grand Canyon. After you've counted your 6000th annual sediment line, you must stop as God himself will smite you and strike you with lightning for daring to think for yourself!

There are MANY forms of dating the Earth used long before carbon or other radiometric dating techniques. So, if radiometric dating didn't work or was flawed as the "Jesus-riding-dinosaurs" types believe, other forms of dating would surely put them in their place.

The real problem is that people with low intelligence actually think they are smart. Their logic: If THEY can't understand something (like how carbon dating works), NO ONE can.
These same idiots also believe God is impotent and immature and requires humans to interpret his mind, will, emotional state, etc. (and God is a HE with a very large golden penis <-- that IS in the O.T.). These same idiots have NEVER read the Bible all the way through (it's pure literary torture, but, being forced to read it ultimately caused me drop the religion altogether). If they did, they would learn there are 2 creation stories (jammed together) and see the gaps in all the so-called begettings don't line up historically nor relatively, so coming up with an AGE of CREATION is impossible. They would also learn that the King James bible - of which all the modern bibles are derived - is so bastardized and modified from the Hebrew and Latin root languages - it's useless as a historical reference.
Don't take my word, ask any honest Catholic bishop.

Scientists don't add billions of years because they feel like it. The scientific revolution did not begin to dismantle christianity. The 3000 year old book is irrelevant when you're flying a 800,000 lb., Boeing 747, 40,000 ft in the air. But you guys accept those fields of science right? Who doesn't love having the ample ability to pristine medical care? That science is okay though. Same with the law of gravity, and the gravitational theory. Then again, I get the impression that creationists don't understand what a scientific theory it. When you observe something in nature (natural selection) over and over again, scientists are able to make future and past predictions off that. Although natural selection cannot be a law (because the changes reflect the surrounding environment) it is still something that is undeniably observed in naturalistic settings. This phenomena is recorded in ecosystems that humans don't step foot in. The evolution theory (not a religion) is the explanation of why and how the phenomena happens. And it didn't become a scientific theory because people decided to started hating the bible. It became a scientific theory because it stands up to scrutiny. All the accumulated evidence supports the explanation. One of the first predictions they made based on the evolution theory is that organisms have gotten more and more complex throughout history. If you take time to look at the fossil record, you see that the simplest organisms are found in the deepest layers of the earth's crust. Through astounding excavations, researchers predicted that humans shared a COMMON ANCESTOR with apes
(we did not evolve from apes, don't ever say this in an argument). And then when you throw in the fact that some humans are still born with tails or that the apes are the second smartest animals behind humans, the explanations are supported. The scientific theory stands up to scrutiny. Did i mention that since researchers were able to sequence the chimp genome in 2005, it is widely know that we share 99% of our DNA with chimpanzees. This science cannot be overlooked since it contradicts your bible. How much longer will you guys hide?

I'm sorry if i offended anyone. Just sick of scientific evidence being discredited.

Why not 6000 years because some scientists adds a billion years to something and we say wow they understand stuff that happens over billions while I'm still trying to get what happened this year they must be right is a load of rubbish . For instance human beings not pre humanoids have supposedly been here for say 700000 year's and it's taken that long to have a population of 7000000000 now as opposed to 6000 years for the same result so one of them must be clearly wrong , i tend to agree with 6000 years because it seems more likely with current facts and not made up numbers to be , correct.

If god created the Universe, then I'd like to know why. Was he (she, it) bored?

Does it matter?

Greetings, I was doing some research and came across this site, and in all the discussions, put downs, rudeness and arguements along with the conspiracy theorists and occasionally some pretty far out loonies on both sides, I see there is a important voice missing-Hebrews-typically Christians, who in general no very little about legitamite scripture and grope around in their own interpretations based on what seems right in their own minds, is contrasted by atheists that believe the scripture to by fairy tale mythology, of equal value to any human religion and who also put all their faith into what seems right in their own mind.

I read Hebrew and I can tell you nothing in scripture suggests that the earth is 6000 years old. In fact in does not even try and offer a time frame. No Jewish person that I have heard of believes the earth to be 6000 years old, that's ridiculous. In addition I believe every word in scripture is accurate (excepting copiest errors) I believe it literally and figuratively on all four levels of PaRDeS, why because HaShem said so. So I don't ascribe to interpretive deuterocanonical ideas that they were longer days than today, skipped generations (not saying geneolgies didn't skip any just saying it doesn't change the date) or any other abstract ideas.Was each day exactly 24 hours at the time. I don't know, He did not say, but makes no difference. But I do believe He created the Heaven and Earth in 6 days and rested on the 7th.
Science says the earth and possibly the solar system is around 4.6 billion years old give or take and I say why not? Do I believe they are accurate? Nope. But they could be close. this in no way contradicts anything in scripture. Idon't believe in evolution, it is a mythological fairy tale also equal to human religions, like most lies it has a some truths, just enough to deceive a thinking person.

The Christian view consistently anthropomorphisizes and over spiritualizes our scriptures, they treat it, interpret it and imagine it as if it was one of their Greek religions.Yisraelites understanding of scripture and Christian do not mix.
So am I contradicting myself? No, here's why I know the earth could be billions of years old...because HaShem in Bereshit (Genesis) says so... HaShem exists outside of and prior to the creation of space and time, he created time... the amount of time between Bereshit 1:1 and 1:2 is not calculatable and could easily be billions of years, he doesn't start the 7 days of creating until verse 3, something happened to the previous heaven and earth prior to verse 3 when he recreates our present time..It's very clear about this, at least in Hebrew and to Hebrew minds..It say in the begining he created language, then with it he created the universe and then the earth, time passes then something happens and the earth came to be formless and empty, covered in darkness accept for the wind of our mighty one that moves before him across the waters, the lack of detail here is intentional, the focus is on the recreation of our present day reality...our calendars have it as 5775 years from the 6th day but our calendar is not without error as we freely admit, because of events that caused lapses in recording it.. No problem it's not really important to our purpose and relationship with our Mighty One...So honestly the arguments in vain... Science is not the enemy, the scriptures command us to study the earth and learn from it, it's his other book, and I usually find there is little contradiction between the 2...

Christian readers, I happen to be a mashiachim yahudi meaning I also believe in HaMashiach but his name isn't Jesus that's an insult to our father to call him that... Christians really need to start getting properly educated by Hebrew scholars not goyim theologians, because right now most atheists know more about your religion than you do and they are making you look foolish and uneducated...IJS.
Shalom beloved

how old is the earth?- who cares. are my sins forgiven by a 2000 homosexual eunuch? I doubt it as he only forgave those who sinned before his death. By the way,he was not resurrected-no,his body was stolen by a gay,Jewish Conspiracy of secret,Neo-sannhedronic nechrophilic,sex orgy cult who kept his body on ice for WEEKS.

You people really believe in that fairy tale??

Is the tooth fairy real?

Those stories were all created to answer the unknown questions. Remember the earth was flat the same time the bible was written.

So you are all wrong congratulations!

The earth cannot be made in 6 24 hour days as God did not even make the Sun until the fourth Day...

The Earth however does in now way spin, wobble, or speed through space at thousands of miles per hour. It does not move at all. It is one cave in a very large system of caves.

This has been proven many times and is a classified secret of governments worldwide.

If the Earth were to be a globe and spinning at 1000 mph none of us would be having this conversation as there would be no atmosphere.

I could type 4000 pages here of PROOFS but the easiest is to just go to any large body of water and measure the curvature. at ANY location.

It always has and always will curve UP to the tune of about a 25,000 mile in circumference CAVE.

Blah blah blah your theories and GUESSES until you choke on them.

MEASURE IT.

No wonder they (our cave neighbors) think we are so stupid that it is ok to exploit us from the cradle to the grave. We don't even bother to question authority and measure our own world....

I believe that the universe, Earth, man, plants and animals were created in six 24-hr days. Because Genesis says so.

I do not accept the Old Earth theory. From Adam until the 1800's it was common knowledge that life began c.4000BC. It was pushed back 4.5 billion years to allow for the masses to accept the possibility of natural selection taking place. Natural selection/evolution is not even science. Just ask Darwin who two years before the publication of his book said that "I am quite conscious that my speculations run quite beyond the bounds of true science." It is obvious the science is absent. But nobody is allowed to say it.

I'm not a scientist. This is a big surprise to you, I am sure. But I don't care if you think I am wrong. That is, unless you can tell me why I am wrong. I'm here to learn, so if you can tell me WHY I am wrong, I'd welcome it. (Prologue: FIN) Carbon dating is garbage. If it has a half life of 700 million years. . . how would you know? Wouldn't somebody have to watch it for that long? (http://christiananswers.net/q-eden/edn-radioactive.html)

And Uncle Sam says the Milky Way is 10 billion years old. Or 15 million. Yup, Uncle Sam gave himself a 50% margin of error on something that it impossible to prove true or prove false. That's a fiiive million year buffer. Sounds real science-y.

God created everything in six 24-hr days. Nobody has made a good argument for their position- none of the evolutionists, none of the Old Earth Creationists, non of the New Earth Creationists, and not me. But that works out, though, because the Creator already told us how it went down.

"The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge; fools hate wisdom and destruction." Proverbs 1:7

I vehemently disagree.

The Holy Bible never changes, God's word is solid as his is like a rock. Science changes for this comes from man.
You want answers - look in The Holy Bible - man such as you and I don't have the answer, for only God can give you what you need. The new earth, Heaven will answer all you questions if you should be saved to getting there. God's love is unconditional - I suggest you seek his love it will be well worth your time!

Revelation 22
10 Then he told me, “Do not seal up the words of the prophecy of this scroll, because the time is near. 11 Let the one who does wrong continue to do wrong; let the vile person continue to be vile; let the one who does right continue to do right; and let the holy person continue to be holy.”
18 I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this scroll: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to that person the plagues described in this scroll. 19 And if anyone takes words away from this scroll of prophecy, God will take away from that person any share in the tree of life and in the Holy City, which are described in this scroll.
Psalm 56 New International Version (NIV)

Psalm 56[a]
1 Be merciful to me, my God,
for my enemies are in hot pursuit;
all day long they press their attack.
2 My adversaries pursue me all day long;
in their pride many are attacking me.
3 When I am afraid, I put my trust in you.
4 In God, whose word I praise—
in God I trust and am not afraid.
What can mere mortals do to me?

If Earth was 6000 years old, the Solar System, and the Sol (aka the Sun) wouldn't have enough time to form the Solar System. To form a planet, you would need to collide a lot of asteroids, which the asteroids form from the cosmic dusts, which came from the protoplanetary disks, and the disks came from the Sun. This is what you called accretion.

In fact, Gas Giants like Jupiter, Saturn, Neptune, and the Uranus are older than the Terrestrial Planets, which are the Venus, Mercury, and this includes our planet Earth.

You people have all become part of the problem
1. Watch the brand new MIT debunks globe earth theory
2. Do you realize that light years are impossible
3. Newtonian physics are all based on the IF statement. He never completed it. You idiots wouldn't know that.
4. The Royal Society Of London is who took the radical opinion of Copernicus's globe theory. No one before him ever proved or believed in the globalization theories you morons suck on.
5. If a boat left a dock, he would be constantly traveling downhill yet after 6 miles out we still see the same boat through all of MIT's experiments.
6. A plane traveling north would never reach it's destination due to the 1024 miles per bogus theory that the earth is rotating. If you look up is the clouds moving or are you moving???? NO. Jump up from your original footprint. You land in the same spot you jumped from. You idiots still think you're rotating?
7. How come a plumbob in engineering shows the center of the earth in one spot...this would mean all buildings would be wider at the top.
8. Go look at the horizon...its flat...so is the water. The water should have a natural curvature to it. IT DOES NOT.
9. Anyone with an IQ over 70 gets this. NASA is a joke and (google this) is made up of 77 percent east germans or NAZI's. They didn't lose the war...they moved to America you fools.

The Bible is not always clear about what it is saying. A bible passage can produce a variety of interpretations. In the Second Epistle of Peter from the King James Version of the New Testament, verse 8 of chapter 3 reads: "But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day." This is typically interpreted to say that one creation day is one thousand years. The first two chapters of the Book of Genesis suggest that we are still in the seventh creation day. This means the Earth must be between 6,000 and 7,000 years old.

Verse 8 seems to repeat that one day is a thousand years within it. But, to say "one day is with the Lord as a thousand years," "and" "a thousand years as one day," could be interpreted as providing two pieces of information. The "and" in the verse may indicate that additional, not redundant, information follows. If so, then the days and years mentioned in the first clause may not be the same days and years referred to in the second clause.

To explore this; first, we denote the days and years in the first clause as Days and Years (beginning with upper case letters). Next, we denote those in the second clause as days and years (beginning with lower case letters). Now, the verse says: 1 Day = 1,000 Years, and 1,000 years = 1 day.

Let a "Day" be a creation day, a "year" be a year as we know it, and a "Year" be 365 "days." Then, 1 Year becomes 365,000 of our years, and 1 Day, 365 million of our years. This would make the Bible’s six creation days (6 Days) 2.2 billion of our years. This is about half the 4.5 billion years geology says is the age of the Earth.

We can go one step further with this line of thought. In verse 4 of Genesis, God divides the light from the darkness. Then, in verse 5, He calls the light, "Day," and the darkness, "Night." To distinguish between Day and Night suggests that they are two independent entities, not two parts of an entity, "Day." If we assume that God divided them equally, then a Night is as long as a Day, or 365 million of our years. Since there is a Night after every Day; then, in addition to the six creation Days, six creation Nights have also elapsed. This means that we have to add another 2.2 billion years to the Bible's Earth age, making it 4.4 billion years. This is essentially the same as the 4.5 billion-year geological age of the Earth.

See my article at: http://voices.yahoo.com/bible-may-support-geological-age-earth-12379795.html?cat=34

I have just had a thought for those who believe that the earth is approximately 10,000 years old or less.

But first a question: do these same people believe that our Galaxy is some 100,000 light years across and that the Universe is really vast, billions of light years across?

If that's the case, and if the earth is only 10,000 years old, how can we see the light from those distant stars and galaxies; there just wouldn't have been enough time for the light to travel across inter-stellar or inter-galactic space to reach us.

I would like to read some comments on this.

Just think upon this, in the bible it says that Adam and Eve were made on the 6th day,
the stars were made on the 4th day.

Now if you and I were there on the 6th day and saw Adam and Eve, what do you think they looked like? Well if they were created right then and there, then would they not be little and the size of a new born 1 day old baby? NO of course not, because GOD created them, they would look more then likely look about the age of 20 or 25 or even 30 years old, but they would only be 1 day old. As for the stars, they would be only 2 days old on day 6, because they were made on day 4 right, but the stars looked older just like Adam and Eve.

I hope this clers it up for you.

Question: If the earth is 6000 years old, what is the average number of pregnancies per woman that would have to occur to populate the earth with 6 billion people? I believe in the Bible but I cannot accept 6000 years as the age of the earth. I think the number is so huge to be unbelievable and people will have to accept that the earth is older than 6000 years. Please list your equations and assumptions.

This is no point in arguing any of it, we all inevitably DIE one day and become food for worms. There is no point to any of it. HUMANITY is not SPECIAL, we are not IMPORTANT, we are not SIGNIFICANT in any way, shape or form.

Billions of years from now the SUN will die and so will we. It will all be gone as if it never were; our hopes, dreams, beliefs, theories, intellectual arguments, PROPERTY RIGHTS, etc. Once a person dies, they cease to exist.

Gone. That's it. Nothing. Forever.

LIVE however you want, BELIEVE whatever you want, DO whatever you want, nothing means anything. Nothing will last. Nothing CAN last.

There is only your actions and their consequences. RIGHT and WRONG and purely SUBJECTIVE concepts.

But that's just my opinion and you're welcome to differ ;-)

It is the people who believe in a God who think others are trying to disprove such an entity's existence. Gods are irrelevant to the study involved in science. Discovering new data which is evidence for or against hypotheses is what matters. The insecurity of the Theists is that there is never evidence that supports their mythology. Fossils, carbon decay, other elemental decay, Tectonics, Genetics, and on and on all support the same theory. The Earth is about 4.5 Billion years old. There is no evidence let alone proof that the Earth is anything like 6000 years old.

You know what I fail to understand honestly Is how people whom do not beilieve is GOD is so desperate to disprove him ...WHY why does it matter to you why has it been such a journey with science to disprove the man the creator...

In the end tho i truly believe what ever was in darkness shall come into light ...But know this Something cannot come from nothing ...Something comes from something ....THE end .

Once again, there is no real solid evidence to prove either case is correct. Even with substantial evidence, science has taught us that theories can be disproved in a matter of years. Although science is trying to paint a picture of what might have been in the past, it is still only an abstract picture. It is foolish to claim that these theories to be regarded as facts. Science is always about trial and error, and as much as we know about science, there have always been more errors than our expected outcomes.

Also, arrogantly declaring a religion is correct or false is honestly embarrassing.

But it is fascinating on how lucky we are that the earth was created in such a rare way. Without the precise angle of the two planets colliding, and the moon forming from the debris, the earth would have never been given life. Without the moon, regular seasons that support life would have never existed. The earth is positioned at the exact distance from the sun in which life can strive. We have never found another planet like earth, we have never found another planet with life. Whether you see it as the result of a god or not, it is truly amazing on how lucky we really are.

Why not PRAISE GOD WHO CREATED MANkind who could invent NUCLEAR BOMBS within 6000years which monkeys need zillion of years to do?

Humans use human logic and so not able to understand God who is unlimited and infinitely huge.

Just like a man stretching out his hands by 1.8m distance in 1 second...would take a snail to travel this 1.8m in possibly few minutes...

Infinite God can fill the ENTIRE UNIverse and create a SUPER HUGE SPACE [UNIVERSE] within days.

GOD FILLS ALL SPACE!
GOD is LIGHT!

Why not 'ASSUME' that ALL-POWERFUL GOD could stretched the UNIverse within days and GOD COVERS BILLIONS AND BILLIONS and ZILLIONS OF Kilometers of SPACE!

Mankind reasoning is always base SOLELY ON 'ASSumption' that
1) speed of light is CONSTANT
2) light is not affected by ELECTRON-MAGNETIC ENERGY
3) there could be many more CHARACTERISTICS of LIGHT which MANkind ignores or know not.
so Mankind concluded that the light of farthest stars 'NEED' 'billion light years' to travel this SPACE to be seen on earth.

1)Why not 'ASSUME' that Light is zillion times faster when God created the STARS in the beginning?
2)Why not 'ASSUME' that ELECTRON-MAGNETIC ENERGY can affect Light and increase speed or bend light?
3)Why not 'ASSUME' that there are many more unknown CHARACTERISTICS of LIGHT?
Truth could be that the STARS are just thousands of years away and that the farthest stars had the fastest speed of Light than the nearest stars seen on earth.

Mankind always calculate base on linear assumption and ignore exponential values.

Manking always think on 2 dimension and could not understand 3 dimensional objects easily and so not easy to share the information.

Why not PRAISE GOD WHO CREATED MANkind who could invent NUCLEAR BOMBS within 6000years which monkeys need zillion of years to do?

hi, the bible is a book written by people. they had no idea of the workings of the universe as we know today or evolution. the earth was the center of everything. i actually can understand why this was thought. if i watch the sun rise and move across the sky and i lived then without the knowledge we now have i would think it was moving and not the earth. the flat earth, i have heard the bible's quote of the circle of the earth. when i look at the moon i see a circle but i would not think is was round like a ball. god created light before the sun. what we know today of how sun's are formed and the gravity to hold the solar system together and create planets alone should be enough to logically know it is incorrect. the two great lights that were made later which the moon is not a light at all but the sun reflecting off it. i really don't think they believed the sun gave light to all the earth, first they had no idea of the entire planet just their part of the world which they believed was the entire earth. it's metaphorical. it say's two great lights were made on to rule over the day to give light upon the earth that already had light. they use day a night for their area of the world which is all they new. it's alway's day and night somewhere in the world at the same time. plant life came before the sun which we know isn't possible. i could go on but there is no need. it belongs to a ancient time and a different people. it holds no credibility. it seems people subscribe to the bible either out of ignorance of today's science, raised that way without the drive to investigate further and of course the fear of death. believing in something for comfort. which would be more of an emotional belief and the worst time to try and think rationally.

the earth is billions of years old civilisation is about 6 thousand years old do your homework idiots

If you believe in a god, a god that is all powerful, then anything is possible. Therfore it is impossible to prove or disprove anything, as you cannot use Human's collective understanding of 'reality' as a basis. God can do anything.
Personally I believe in science, mostly because it sets up 'rules' which stand only until they can be 'disproven' to our (human's) collective understanding of 'reality'. So for example, we can 'prove' gravity exists because if I drop a pencil it fall's to the floor. I find this the most useful means to construct me reality, and go about my everyday life.
However now imagine my reality is in fact something like the Matrix. Or that none of the rules of science/physics exist at all and it is all someone's dream. Or that there are infinite universes with infinite worlds where infinite alternative realities are unfolding. These last 3 sound like ludicrous ideas because they don't conform to our collective understanding of 'reality', they are not useful and do not help us conduct our everyday lives.
It's the age-old conundrum, if a tree falls in the wood and there is no-one to hear it, does it make a sound. You would probably think 'yes of course it does' - but this is only based on things that you 'know' - or rather, it hasn't been proven that a tree doesn't make a sound if no-one is there to hear it :)

Nowhere does the Bible say that the earth was created 6000 years ago: the Bible provides a lineage of man dating to Adam that goes back 6,000 years (I've personally studied and computed this lineage to verify the claims of the Biblical "scholars" and if you'd like a copy of the spreadsheet I created tracing/confirming the lineage, please email me at paulperk at gmail and I'd be glad to send you a copy).

If you read the Bible literally, it says that earth and all of its creations were created in 7 days; however, if you read the Bible literally, it also says that, to God, a day is like a thousand years and a thousand years is but a day - a description that I interpret to mean that time is infinite. I see no inherent conflict that earth could have been created, dinosaurs roamed the earth for millions of years and got wiped out by a meteor or volcanic ash, man was created, and the great flood occurred, etc.

All this arguing nonsense and people don't believe we evolved from apes and therefore humans are animals? Therefore humans can have sex with animals? What a country we live in! Population: Dumbass Scientific and Religious Douchebags!

How do you describe the world population growth on a graph. As you go back in time it obviously decreases, back to a point at which there was only two people here? Or if the world evolved over billions of years don't you think there would be more people? Does it point more toward creation?

So an atheist gets bent out of shape when talking to christians or other persons when he feels threaten...do you always have to cuss...do you feel we hear your opinion better when you cuss....and im sure i will get a lot of foul language after this...guess what,I am christian...and the earth is billions of years old...yes i said it...ANd theres life in other galaxys ...no i dont have proof..but are you gonna tell me that god created the universe with one planet with life???I dont believe the bible is "what it says" is what it means...no brain washing here...

what some of you dont get is that being athiest is just as religious as being christians. you have to believe that there is no God or that there is. i am a christian and proud. if you are not, then so be it, but dont call me a "shithead christian" because i am a christian. if you really think that there is no God then i will pray for you that He will show you mercy and send someone on your path to set you straight, as for im sure He already did. You are Gods children He gave you free will so that you dont have to be slaves, you made your own choice to follow Him or not. oh and one more thing if you believe that when you die that it is then the end and nothing else, just nothing... then it wont hurt to just try and be a christian where we believe that you can spend an eternity in heaven??

??????????

6000 years sounds great to me. Now, concerning those who disagree, why are you so angry? It is possible to have a rational discussion on any subject. Some of you find it necessary to insult, belittle, curse at, those who agree; why? My view is no less faith than yours. I have no proof, neither do you. For this you hate me? Odd, but not unexpected. You and I will someday discover which one of us is right, and for your sake I hope you are right. I live without fear, in the general sense, and if that leaves me dead and happy and still dead, what have I lost? Nothing. On the other hand... Yeah, you had better be right. Then again, maybe you should consider asking different questions. Nobody likes their world view challenged, that is why you are angry, that and the fact that deep in your gut you hate GOD and aren't you lucky He gave you the free will needed to do that? Take a hard look at the evidence, you will be surprised. God Bless!

The Bible lots the entire geneology of Jesus Christ back to Adam. The entire lifespan of these people is roughly 3,500 years. Add another 2,000 since Christ died, and that is where the whole 5,000 year old earth comes from.

I find Russell Humphreys' article really interesting in the highly dishonest way he uses the terms 'evolutionary' and 'evolutionists'. Evolution is about the diversity of life and the origin of species on Earth. It is not about the origins and age of the universe, nor the origins and age of the Earth. It is not even about the origin of life on Earth. I would have thought, as a supposedly well educated 'Creationist Physicist' he would have known this.

When you read his article, every time you read 'evolutionists' imagine that what he's really written is: 'geologists, physicists, cosmologists, astronomers, biologists, chemists and palaeontologists'. These are the real range of scientists he's arguing against (and I've probably missed a few others as well!)It doesn't sound like he's in such a pathetic minority position when he lumps them all under the semi-derogatory term of 'evolutionists'.

According to commonly accepted scientific theory of the Big Bang:

"The universe was born with the Big Bang as an unimaginably hot, dense point. When the universe was just 10-34 of a second or so old — that is, a hundredth of a billionth of a trillionth of a trillionth of a second in age — it experienced an incredible burst of expansion known as inflation, in which space itself expanded **faster than the speed of light**."

Assuming that at the point of creation, inflation eclipsed the speed of light, then it seems reasonable to question whether the light from distant stars can be used as a reliable indicator of the actual age of the universe.

Imagine, for a moment, that children were taught factual subjects and morality at school by qualified, non-religious teachers.
Imagine, for a moment, that it was forbidden to tell children anything at all about religion before they were 18.
In such a world, only the very few, not very bright kids would be unable to recognise that religions answer no questions anymore and they, and their gods, were only invented to explain the, then, inexplicable.

Believers believe because they have been indoctrinated to believe with threats of eternal damnation if they don't believe or don't keep paying money to their religion. This is much easier to achieve the smaller a community is.

Such indoctrination is also possible on a national scale. If you had the power to completely isolate all the people in a country, you could have those people believe that its ruler is a god and his successors are gods; that all the country's ills, including malnutrition and non-existent health care, are the fault of the people for not working hard enough and when the leader dies, it is not from any natural cause but because he has killed himself by working too hard for his people who, of course, now feel even more shamed and will work even harder for the next leader.

Impossible, of course, you couldn't get a whole country to fall for that!

But then, there's always North Korea... (If you don't know anything about North Korea, ask young earth creationist and expert on world affairs Sarah 'You can see Russia from Alaska' Palin.

As an atheist, I have come to realise that we all need to live on this world together but it would be nice for kids to be told how to think instead of what to think. If religious people believe some great hand is coming out of the sky to 'save' them, firstly, I hope, their sakes, that they have picked the absolutely correct only true religion in the world out of all the 4,000, or so, only true religions, faiths, belief systems and gods in the hundreds of civilisations on earth and, secondly, would you mind divesting all your worldly goods to we rational types so we can use them to continue to research the never ending wonder of what the universe has to offer and buy lots of really hard to understand science books? After all, you and all your churches don't need money because your gods will provide for you and you'll only ever read one book in your lives.

Who created God? How long has he/she/it been in existence? If God is all powerful, all knowing and all good then
i) How can the Devil exist, be evil and act against God?
ii) How could he create something in man that was imperfect without meaning to?
iii) If he meant to create something imperfect in man and knows all before it happens, then why does he get angry at mans wrong doing?
iv) Why does he punish those who do not pander to his ego?

If the bible is truly accurate and the word of God then does that mean God supported slavery and through abolition we are acting against him (just one of many abhorrent practices mentioned favourably in the bible)? Why does the bible contradict itself so many times, and cause so much debate amongst religious followers? If these are just inaccuracies created by man copying Gods word then does this mean the bible really does have mistakes? If the bible has mistakes then how do we know which parts are correct and which are false? If the answer is “we don’t”, then why should we believe this 6000 year old statement?

If there were only 2 people (Adam and Eve) created then as already mentioned in arguments below we should all be highly inbred. Is incest a sin and if so then why were their children allowed to continue as they were doing? Why would he create a flood to remove sin, that forces the survivors (both human and animal) into incest once again. Where did all the different traits of the different people on Earth arise? If they were perfect when they were created then what is the origin of all these genetic diseases? Did they come from point mutations (and all in 4000 years)? If so then does this huge genetic change (in such a short period of time) to beneficial features (i.e. adaptations) for each races native environment not support a form of evolution on some level?

As you can see I have many questions about apparent gaps and inaccuracies in theological arguments. I agree that science does not have the answers to all questions. Science does however admit to this and acts to provide theories based on the evidence at hand. The only fundamental in science is that any theories value is based on the evidence behind it. This is typified by critical thinking, reproducibility and peer review. This allows no room for tradition or dogmatic thinking.

I have nothing against the idea of a higher power. It does appear obvious to me that any attempts to organise religion are a creation of man. If there is a God in the true sense, who is all good, all knowing and all powerful, then by common sense he must be devoid of human failings. As such there would be no room for ego, anger, disappointment or any other human weakness. There would be no requirement for churches, synagogues or mosques as he would already know if we are good in our hearts/follow his plan/believe in him, without the need to declare or prove it. If we were created to question the world around us then why would it be evil to do so and why would we be punished for doing so if we honestly believed it was for the greater good?

Our preacher made the excellent point that the debate about how old the Earth is, whether it was done in 6 days, 6 ages, etc, and indeed whether there was actually a talking snake, diverts focus from the important points of Genesis - that everything was created by God, that He made us in His image, and that sin came into the world and we (humans) chose sin over God and so need redeeming.

Lets take the Noah story,

1. It is estimated that there are around 5 million species of animal on earth today so it is fair to assume there would have been a similar amount back then. 2 of every animal means he had to build a boat large enough to carry circa 10 million animals.

2. Not all animals exist in the same country or even the same continent but he somehow managed to single handedly accumulate every species. I would guess in our day and age with all our technology it would take a lifetime to do this. 600 years would probably do it though LOL

3. I beleive that they were aboard the boat for just over a year in total so there would need to be enough food to feed 10 million animals, taking account of all of their dietary requirements for a whole year. I can't even imagine how big this boat would need to be to store all of this food and to keep it fresh.

4. Animal storage and exersize would have to be carefully considered. You couldn't keep the lions with the zebras and you'd better make sure those 2 ants and 2 fleas don't escape or you'll never find them.

And finally if there was ever a reason to disbelieve the exsistence of God it has to be that some old fool on a boat lived to be 950 years old!