TakeOnIt
Compare opinions of world leading experts and influencers.

Is God just?

Both western and eastern religions assert that the world is a just place, whether that is made possible by God, or through the subtle workings of the Law of Karma. In contrast, from an atheists perspective, the universe is at best an amoral place. Bad things happen to good people and vice versa; morality is only enforced, if at all, by humans, not God; morality a muddled mosaic of meaning undermined by mortality.

Implications to Other Questions


Experts and Influencers

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Agree
Experts In Religion


The Catholic Church    Largest Christian Church
Agree
The Last Judgment will reveal that God's justice triumphs over all the injustices committed by his creatures and that God's love is stronger than death.
11 Oct 1992    Source


Experts In War


Osama Bin Laden    Former Leader of Al Qaeda
Agree
All praise is due to Allah, who built the heavens and earth in justice, and created man as a favor and grace from Him.
08 Sep 2007    Source


Experts In Christianity


C.S. Lewis    Author, Professor of Literature
Agree
My argument against God was that the universe seemed so cruel and unjust. ... Of course I could have given up my idea of justice by saying it was nothing but a private idea of my own. But if I did that, then my argument against God collapsed too--for the argument depended on saying that the world was really unjust, not simply that it did not happen to please my fancies. [The] very act of trying to prove that [...] reality was senseless [forced me to assume] my idea of justice--was full of sense.
01 Jan 1952    Source


Andrew Sullivan    Journalist, Author
Agree
The sense that [God was] evil ... suddenly, unprompted by any specific thought, just lifted. I can no more explain that... But I can say that it represented for me a revelation of God's love and forgiveness, the improbable notion that the force behind all of this actually loved us, and even loved me. The calm I felt then; and the voice with no words I heard: this was truer than any proof I have ever conceded, any substance I have ever felt with my hands, any object I have seen with my eyes.
05 Feb 2007    Source


Disagree
Experts In War


Napoleon Bonaparte    Emperor of France
Disagree
If I had believed in a God of rewards and punishments, I might have lost courage in battle.
01 Jan 1815    Source


Experts In Science


Albert Einstein    Physicist, Icon of the 20th Century
Disagree
I see only with deep regret that God punishes so many of His children for their numerous stupidities, for which only He Himself can be held responsible; in my opinion, only His nonexistence could excuse Him.
02 Jan 1915    Source


Richard Dawkins    Evolutionary Biologist, Writer, Atheism Activist
Disagree
The total amount of suffering per year in the natural world is beyond all decent contemplation. ... In a universe of electrons and selfish genes, blind physical forces and genetic replication, some people are going to get hurt, [others] are going to get lucky, and you won't find any rhyme or reason in it, nor any justice. The universe that we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil, no good, nothing but pitiless indifference.
01 Nov 1995    Source


Eliezer Yudkowsky    Artificial Intelligence Researcher
Disagree
How is my religious family to comprehend it, working, as they must, from the assumption that [my brother] was murdered by a benevolent God? The same loving God, I presume, who arranges for millions of children to grow up illiterate and starving; the same kindly tribal father-figure who arranged the Holocaust and the Inquisition's torture of witches. I would not hesitate to call it evil, if any sentient mind had committed such an act, permitted such a thing.
18 Nov 2004    Source


Steven Pinker    Psychology Professor
Disagree
The moral design of nature is as bungled as its engineering design. What twisted sadist would have invented a parasite that blinds millions of people or a gene that covers babies with excruciating blisters? To adapt a Yiddish expression about God: If an intelligent designer lived on Earth, people would break his windows.
07 Aug 2005    Source


Experts In Scientology


L. Ron Hubbard    Founder of Scientology
Disagree
God was feeling sardonic the day He created the Universe. So it's rather up to at least one man every few centuries to pop up and come just as close to making him swallow his laughter as possible.
01 Oct 1938    Source


Experts In Skepticism


James Randi    Magician, Illusionist, Writer, Skeptic
Disagree
I accuse the Christian god of murder by allowing the Holocaust to take place -- not to mention the "ethnic cleansing" presently being performed by Christians in our world -- and I condemn and vilify this mythical deity for encouraging racial prejudice and commanding the degradation of women.
01 Jan 1995    Source



Comments

Add Your TakeOnIt (click to expand, no login required)
0 Points      MTC      23 Feb 2013      Stance on Question: Disagree
The fictional character known as “God”, as it was imagined to be by the writers of the bible, is clearly not just.


0 Points      blacktrance      10 Feb 2011      Stance on Question: Neutral
There is no reason to believe that God exists, so it's impossible to say whether a nonexistent being is just or not. If the God of the Old Testament existed, it'd be questionable whether morality can apply to an all-powerful eternal being.


0 Points      Mark Embleton      19 Jan 2011      Stance on Question: Disagree
This is a meaningless, hypothetical question because there is no evidence for the existence of a god or gods. However, if you insist on playing hypothetical games, just read the Old Testament and then make a decision whether the god described therein is just or good. But I forgot - most people who cite scripture or other religious texts as evidence haven't actually read them in any depth, or have just been spoon-fed what to believe without question.


1 Point      Sean Cook      23 Sep 2011      General Comment
Another thing, everyone is spoon-fed, even existentialists. Look at your cloths, look at everyones cloths. Why do they wear what they wear? they wear it cause its fashionable, or in style. (you dont see bellbottoms on guys anymore right?) what dictates fashion though?
If you say media: People are constantly exposed to what the stars are doing and what music is implying and eat it up, not knowing they are being force-fed what the media wants them to see. Finish the quotes "Burger king, Have __ ____ ___" "McDonalds, I'm _____ __" Anyone could get that right right? but how does everyone, even kids know it? because they are being force-fed by the tv and all the stuff thats on it. Im not suggesting tv is bad but you claim that we are spoon-fed what to believe and dont question it when im sure you haven't questions why you like the cloths or why you know the slogans or why you sing the songs you sing.


0 Points      Benja      23 Sep 2011      General Comment
I recall when major fast food joints had to display nutrition information posters. They were in black and white and admittedly no-one read that shit before they ate that shit. But in any case, I'd love to see equivalent posters at churches warning their patrons about the scientific content of the bible.


0 Points      Vickie      07 Feb 2012      Stance on Question: Disagree
Just as you believe that there should be disclaimers at churches, we Christians believe there should be a disclaimer recited in all the schools when they teach children about evolution. Obviously it is a theory, but it is not presented to our impressionable children in that manner. It is shameful.


0 Points      Benja      07 Feb 2012      General Comment
Scientific theories have the disclaimer: "may be replaced by a theory that better explains new evidence".

What's shameful, or perhaps tragic, my dear Vickie, is how Christians claim to be certain of what they know, and then indoctrinate their kids to believe the same. There's no possibility in your mind that God can't exist, or that some evidence could convince that he doesn't. Your imagination suffocated a long time ago in a small plastic bag.



0 Points      Sean Cook      30 Sep 2011      General Comment
I'm sorry but your reply had no sense to it. Explain.




0 Points      Sean Cook      23 Sep 2011      General Comment
The only problem is atheists and others who try to disprove christianity take on new believers or foolish ones who don't know what they are talking about and generalize the entire religion. I know people who will run circles around existentialists because they were taught well. Generalizing all christians by the ones who don't know is like saying, If a 100 lb kid from your school fought a kid from another school that was 180 lbs of muscle and lost we can therefor say your whole school is filled with whimps and weaklings.
Try to take on someone who is educated in the word and see if they dont change your perspective a bit.


0 Points      Benja      23 Sep 2011      General Comment
"The only problem is atheists and others who try to disprove christianity take on new believers or foolish ones who don't know what they are talking about and generalize the entire religion."

Fair point. I won't argue with you then.


0 Points      Sean Cook      30 Sep 2011      General Comment
Was that supposed to be funny or a joke on how knowledgeable my personal belief is?





0 Points      Benja      09 May 2010      General Comment
Fascinating excerpt from William James' The Varieties of Religious Experience.

"At bottom the whole concern of both morality and religion is with the manner of our acceptance of the universe. Do we accept it only in part and grudgingly, or heartily and altogether? Shall our protests against certain things in it be radical and unforgiving, or shall we think that, even with evil, there are ways of living that must lead to good?"


1 Point      Radioactivity      09 Apr 2010      Stance on Question: Disagree
It feels strange to even disagree with this question, because regardless of the answer it feels like admitting God's existence just by the phrasing of it. Since I don't believe that there is a god, this question is more irrelevant to me than anything else. However, if the existence of a god coincided with the world as it currently functions, he would certainly be unjust.


1 Point      Adam Atlas      05 Apr 2010      Stance on Question: Disagree
People who believe in God seem to expect infinitesimally less of him than they expect of mere human leaders. Any God who creates and rules a universe like this one cannot be just; if not actively evil, he must at best be merely amoral.

I'm running against Yahweh in the upcoming deity election of 2012. Vote for me! If elected, I will immediately eliminate death and suffering.
(Does it have to be any more complicated than that?)